Bi/Bi Education
Discussion: ASL/English Bilingual Education
What's wrong with RSD?
Many of us have complained about Rochester School for the Deaf. We need a common place to vent our concerns with each other without revealing ourselves to RSD to protect our jobs and children.
21 Comments:
Check the new links in the right side about new ASL websites
Does anyone know who is the expert (with true facts) about Bi-Bi education?
I don't know that there's any single "expert" on Bi-Bi Education. I first learned about it reading The Mask of Benevolence (2nd edition, I think) by Harlan Lane. That's probably not the BEST source, though, and certainly not the most up-to-date.
I've also read articles (usually research, so you can judge the validity for yourself) in American Annals of the Deaf and Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education.
There's also CAEBER in New Mexico (link on the right side of the main page).
And there's a book called Cultural and Language Diversity and the Deaf Experience edited by Ila Parasnis that has several chapters by different authors, addressing bilingualism.
If I have time later, I'll try to find some specific articles in the journals I mentioned and see what I can find online.
(Has anyone else had trouble the last couple days with the blog not loading? Sometimes I'll just get a completely blank page for a few hours. Trying to decide if it's the site or just my computer.)
Hi,
Actually I am looking for someone who has done any research on Bi-Bi Education and gathering all the facts of the success with the Bi-Bi Education program. If so, I was thinking that maybe the organizations from RSD could chip in money and invite this person to come to RSD and give a presentation about Bi-Bi Education program.. It would be a huge benefit for all of us to learn about it as a lot of parents, staff and community members are scared, misinformed, and not familiar with it. If we want the best for our deaf children, we NEED to see what program is best for our RSD students.
What do you think of having someone to educate or share with us about this Bi-Bi program??
I will also keep looking for something too. To RSD Teacher, thank you so much for helping out. You sure are a big help.
Shawn Neil Mahshie is the person I'd go to. This author has a book out entitled Educating Deaf Children Bilingually (Gallaudet University Press) that outlines the philosophy and how it is practiced in ... Sweden, I think. Or Denmark. Not sure. Have to check again.
PS Yes I've had problems loading this site too. Moderator, I hope all is well. Are you having tech problems?
Chris,
Probably Sweden, though I haven't read that particular book (yet). I've been told that in Sweden, bilingual education for deaf children is the norm. There are some things they do there that wouldn't work here, mostly because they're a smaller, more homogenous country. But in general, I believe they've shown a lot of success.
It probably wouldn't hurt for us to get in contact with some schools that are currently using bi-bi, also: Indiana, New Mexico, California-Fremont -- those are the first that spring to mind, though I know there are some others.
There are probably people at NTID that know a lot about bi-bi as well, and inviting someone from there wouldn't be financially intimidating since they're here in town.
Exactly. It hurts nothing whatsoever to gather together a community of people... theorists, researchers, teachers, parents, administrators (and all the overlap that goes with those roles) and even students to start seeing what we can do. Get the schools to list in concrete fashion what they're afraid of, what their difficulties are in making the conversion from TC to Bi-Bi. I've seen concerns ranging from "well if we switch to Bi-Bi we're afraid all the hearing teachers will be asked to leave..." which borders on the ridiculous as far as legitimate concerns go. And then you've got your more audist based fears where people bluntly tell you "...well, people are afraid of the shift in the balance of power..." (I'll leave it to you guys to interpret what that means).
But then you've got your entirely reasonable concerns: training, money, lack of materials... things like that. And add to that list tech problems because the best Bi-Bi "texts" in my opinion aren't books alone, but rather Smart Board lessons where you can see both English and ASL at the same time.
Say, RSD Teacher, can you get a couple of similarly interested teachers in here so we can all throw around ideas?
Let's take a look at Dr. Mowl. He was raised in a Deaf family where bi-bi language played a large role in communication. He has a Deaf brother and Deaf sister. They both are working at Indiana School for the Deaf using Bi-Bi education. I think
his brother is a coordinator of Bi-Bi program and his sister is a teacher. Correct me if I am wrong.
This is a living proof testimony that Dr. Mowl should share his experience and accomplishment using Bi-Bi with us. I also happen to raised in a Deaf family involving Bi-Bi. My Deaf sister is English teacher at School for the Deaf. I also have a
Deaf cousin who grew up in a Deaf family again using Bi-Bi. She is English teacher at other School for the Deaf. I am still really amazed at Bi-Bi.
How could Dr. Mowl allow total communication mainly used in RSD's communication. It is totally failure. If not for Bi-Bi, he would not be where his is now. I really don't understand him...
What kind of outreach program do you all have in New York? I'm curious. For example, since I assume the "90% of all deaf children are born to hearing parents" stat applies to NY as well, where do the parents go for advice when they first learn their kid is deaf? Audiologists, I would assume, but from that point many different types of things happen in different states. Some states have outreach programs that work with the parents to give them up to date information on ALL options, including Bi-Bi... (but some outreach programs, it seems, don't tell them about Bi-Bi at all). And some states are entangled in destructive laws that limit, in a highly prejudiced and biased way, in my opinion, what kinds of methods can be used to teach deaf children. I admit I'm not as clear on that area (law) as I would like to be but it's a common theme that keeps coming up.
It's all kind of stupid anyway, if you ask me, because the prime years for acquiring language (or at least building the neurological pathways to acquire languages--which in turn depends upon EXPOSURE to an easily accessible language) are between 0-3, well before a kid arrives at school.
So it's not just the schools you have to focus on. It's also the outreach programs that can potentially get to a kid and his parents MUCH earlier (than his school years).
What kind of outreach programs do you have in NY?
I am going to repeat what I said in Starving for Access three months ago...
http://starvingforaccess.blog.com/432085/#cmts
Result comes from action...
Action comes from challenge...
Think safety and harmless first...
It is an infinite job...
Embrace continuous improvement...
Onward movement for the betterment...
Best of luck in Deaf Education endeavors...
With Love and Peace,
W. Dannels, Rochester, NY
Written by: W Dannels at 2005/12/03 - 03:16:41
The simple truth is that we are all there is. Nobody else is going to get this done for us. I would give you a pep talk if I thought you needed one but you don't need one.
Think on something: your upcoming meeting is really just a Board Meeting. How many times has the Board met over the last five years? Numerous times. How many of THOSE meetings did you notice?
But this one is different. It's electrical. This one is charged with your expectations and your hopes. Who created that electricity? You did.
You don't need a pep talk. So far as this whole "we're all there is" thing goes, you're already chomping at the bit. And keep something in mind: "we" isn't just YOU. "WE" are scattered all across this country, in some places already hooked up and working together... in some places not. But we're getting there, and it looks like you're well on your way to becoming a part of that.
So good luck with your meeting, and let us know what happens on this blog and on the message board. Remember we're with you. We are standing by to help you make Bi-Bi a reality in New York.
I browsed through U.S. Department of Education website and found the article, “Deaf Students Education Services”. It was wrote by the Department of Education on the notice of policy guidance. I thought you should read this article. The Secretary was concerned about this failing deaf education and misinterpreting the least restrictive environment provisions of the IDEA and Section 504 by the government of the states and locals.
Deaf Students Education Services by U.S. Department of Education
CDP
I am a hearing parent of a mainstreamed hearing impaired child.
So, the article by US Dept. of Education, on the quality of deaf eduction, I want to be clear about one thing... about developing IEPs. I have asked if my child could go to RSD summer school for cultural/social reason and my request is often denied. Now the article says that the deaf child's social needs should be considered... could it mean that the school district has to consider my request that my child went to RSD for summer school?
Help me out here, please.
I am also speaking up for a few other parents of mainstreamed children.
Hearing parent.
I suggest you to arm yourself with the information by contacting VESID Special Education Policy staff:
write:
New York State Education Department,
Vocational and Educational Services for Individuals with Disabilities,
Special Education Policy,
One Commerce Plaza, Room 1624
Albany, New York 12234
call:
SE Policy:
(518) 473-2878
E-mail:
SE Policy:
vesidspe@mail.nysed.gov
Got this from Special Education Policy Contact Information
Good Luck!
CDP
More information on the local offices.
New York State Education Department
Vocational and Educational Services for Individuals with Disabilities
Rochester District Office - 585.238.2900
Geneseo Satellite Office - 585.243.1040
Geneva Satellite Office - 315.789.0191
Serving Livingston, Monroe, Ontario, Seneca, Wayne and Yates Counties
Rochester Office
109 S. Union Street
Rochester, New York 14607
(585) 238-2900
TTY: (585) 325-6278
(800) 462-0178
Fax: (585) 325-2001
Geneseo Satellite Office
11 Megan Drive
Geneseo, New York 14454
(585) 243-1040
Fax: (585) 243-1048
Geneva Satellite Office
70 Elizabeth Blackwell Street
Geneva, New York 14456
(315) 789-0191
TTY: (315) 789-0294
Fax: (315) 789-0795
CDP
NEW YORK EDUCATION DEPARTMENT
WHERE ARE OUR RIGHTS FOR DEAF AND HARD HEARING STUDENTS?
OUR URGENT MEETING!
We need our PARTIPCATION and HELP! Can we set up our meeting! Where or when?? First of all, we must do to do something with NYS Education Department. We need to contact/hire someone who could write the laws and know the regulation relating to Special Education. We could ask all deaf schools parents and deaf community in New York State to particpate! WE MUST DO IT. All deaf schools follow the NYS regulation and laws.
We need to focus on few major issues:
1. IEP (Deaf parents have rights to support and choose ASL language and development for their deaf child instead of auditory and speech)
2. Eliminate the 80 dB hearing loss due to RSD policy and NYS Education Dept (?) Deaf and hard of hearing students have rights to enroll in any deaf schools in NYS and also summer program. Hard of hearing student can enroll if she/he wants to meet social need/education need.
3. Enforce all school districts to accept and send deaf and hard of hearing students to deaf school due to their social/education needs when hearing/deaf parents request.
4. Define BI-BI.
WHY NOT WE CAN DO THE ACTION AND CHANGE OUR DEAF EDUCATION AND LAW!
Here is some scary information that has been hidden from us all.
deafreedom.com
Irrefutable Proof Bi-Bi does NOT Work! Quite a Shocker...
http://deafreedom.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1614
there is no proof that bi-bi does not work... just a delusion
scary info hidden from us
what a conspiracy!!!!
wake up and join us as positive people wanting to help Deaf education
There are SO many problems with using one or two schools' scores on state-mandated testing to say, "Bi-bi doesn't work." I could give a lecture series on why it's totally inappropriate.
Bottom line: there's philosophy, and then there's implementation. To make a judgment of whether bi-bi works at a given school, we need to know what they're actually *doing* under the name "bi-bi". Then we need to carefully gather data which acknowledges the many variables involved. Even then it's such a complicated situation that when there are successes or failures, it's hard to say which factor deserves the most credit (bi-bi, teacher dedication, student's family support, etc.)
If you want to read something, read this:
CAEBER Year 5 Report
(You need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open it.)
Yeah, I know, it's huge. And if you're not very familiar with research statistics, it can be confusing. I recommend Section 1.0: Overview to get an idea what they did, and Section 3.0: Student Outcomes. Skim the statistics if you're not comfortable with them and focus on the parts that start with "Discussion of Results of ..."
Their findings have limitations as well, but they acknowledge them and have done their best to conduct the study in a scientific, valid way.
RSD,
I know people only want to point to research or results of cases that support their position but you are also not looking at both sides of the equation. Those state testing results ar not gossip or hearsay. I know the its hard to admit it for some but those are FACTS. Those are actual test result, they show in those instances that the magical BiBi pill is failing in those schools. The students are being forcible harmed since the change over from previous modes. In those 2 schools....the answer to your "question" is ABSOLUTLY NOT!!!!!
I am sure there is many more examples of success and failure, I am also sure that the Successes probably out way the failures. I am also however just as sure that their are proven successes at TC schools or ones that use only Oral or cued speech methods. The gang that has tried to hijack the Michigan system does not have to ability aparently to except those facts either.
This is the probem that is facing MSD. Sure, Bi Bi may help some progress more, but it also may cause some to regress as in these examples. Even Dr. Nover personally said that Learning ASL first does not insure better English skills. Now here is the head of CAEBER admitting to what this clan in here refuse to accept. There is no one system that is to the benefit of 100% of the education population. Some will fall through the cracks.........some day if the mob gets their way, these same people will once again be fighting for their rights and the "oppression" that BiBi imposed upon them when this grand experiment fails them.
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